What's the Deal W/ 2dCloud?

[eheitner]

Can someone lay out the whole story? Has it ever been actually covered by an external reporter anyplace that leaves a record (ie not twitter)?

Like, there's stuff about their artists being accused of sexual misconduct, but there's also them being just like, chaotic and imploding all the time? Whatever happened to Kim Jooha? I really found their writing and curatorial vision about comics exciting and was super interested to see what they were gonna do at 2dCloud but then they left before they published anything? Or what?

Insert a Jerry Seinfeld gif here or something.

[grubcubman]

I'd read an actual article about this, but here are some links that sorta trace the recent arc of the publisher:

• Tim Hodler's summary of the issues in 2018
• 2dcloud's original statement on Medium, now deleted
  
• Some more stuff from Women Write About Comics
  
• Maggie Umber's April 2019 essay (on Kickstarter!)
  
• Raighne Hogan's letter about publishing Blaise Larmee again
  
• Laura Lannes's tweet that led to that letter
  

I have often liked 2dcloud's books, though they (and plenty of others!) sometimes make me feel like if I want to receive a book last, I should preorder it from the publisher. And I also always liked Kim Jooha's stuff on tcj.com and elsewhere.

Final edit: I love a "what's the deal" forum post.

[eheitner]

Thanks!
Any info about: did they really f over creators the way some claim? Did they mismanage money? What lead to the abrupt break with Kim Jooha?

[dominocorp]

it's a story that should be told, for sure. dunno how to do myself it without speaking for & potentially bringing negative attention to people I care about, which is probably why everyone doesn't really wanna go into it in depth. But I think some more thorough honesty from people at the top is needed and I wish that had been done better before this relaunch. it's more sad and mundane than anything else. but distorted aspects of it still bother me to this day, as they have kind of mutated over time due to lack of proper explanation. it's that lack of in depth context at a key time still drives me nuts. not just the initial controversy stuff, but Kim's time, etc. (Almost) everyone who wasn't an artist for the company made decisions that were destructive to the artists. I mean...what publisher isn't that way, but this was a unique one. To be clear, I think if people explained themselves, a lot of the problems could be fixed or at least peoples assumptions could be corrected. 

[eheitner]

Yeah, so this is sort of the thing! I respect that you are trying to talk carefully and respectfully, but also what the hell is someone not in the know supposed to make of that?

Or this?

Like, I'm a complete outsider to this social scene, but I've bought and enjoyed a bunch of 2dCloud books in the past, and now I'm trying to figure out whether I want to give them money again in the future? And I'm leaning against it? But I can't really explain why other than to say that there seems to be a lot of fucking around going on? But then I feel bad b/c I do like the artists?

I mean, no ethical art comics consumption under capitalism, sure, but.....

[devin]

May 4, 2023 13:58:53 GMT eheitner said:

Yeah, so this is sort of the thing! I respect that you are trying to talk carefully and respectfully, but also what the hell is someone not in the know supposed to make of that?

Or this?

Like, I'm a complete outsider to this social scene, but I've bought and enjoyed a bunch of 2dCloud books in the past, and now I'm trying to figure out whether I want to give them money again in the future? And I'm leaning against it? But I can't really explain why other than to say that there seems to be a lot of fucking around going on? But then I feel bad b/c I do like the artists?

I mean, no ethical art comics consumption under capitalism, sure, but.....

I think that tweet thread is pretty straight forward: Micro publisher in tiny market has no money and is disorganised while trying to navigate cliquey scene. It's hardly a unique situation. I also don't see anything off-putting or untoward in it.

As for the rest, I have no idea.

[junkflower]

The fascination with this publishers dealings has always eluded me. Seems like the typical hyper self-involved art weirdo no-world-outside-the-scene/no-world-outside-NYC cliquey bullshit to me.

Like even that guys tweets are part of it- they fucking love drama!! Everyone involved is like "ohhhh I can't even talk about it! It's just so much I can't even talk about it!" And yet that's all anyone talks about! Endlessly, yet so vaguely, so they can just talk around it forever... The conversations about this publisher aren't even about their comics... if it's not obvious, I absolutely can't stand it

[eheitner]

I care because I like the comics they publish but I don't wanna give them money if they are dicking over artists (moreso than other tiny publishers)!

[dominocorp]

Well, that thread really unnerved me, because it points to this strange lack of boundaries that I thought they were going to correct. Yes, it just seems like random gossip and is even kind of funny. But to me, it connects to their past history where they've tweeted out half truths that are deeply personal and have had profound effects on artists they publish/work with, and the lives of those peoples families and friends. I had hoped that they were going to correct all that, but instead they're tweeting about people showing up to their public event who didn't buy the books (the tweet they deleted), personal conflicts between one of the events readers and a prominent cartoonist, etc etc etc.

It's all petty and, yes, as a reader I'd be like 'what is all this about and why can't people talk about it? it's all cliquey and depressing.' And maybe it seems, in a way, that 2d is trying to subvert the cliqueness or something. But the reality seems to be that they are using interactions they have with people/their artists and dangling out confusing gossip. Which, again, might be inconsequential except for their past history in doing this to very negative ends with real consequences.

They let things get out about their artists that they, as a publisher, had the responsibility to clarify rather than embellish, and that's where all these problems started and it seems they are still thinking that way. 

They seem to have a problem distinguishing between a publisher having a responsibility to their artists (correct) and the notion that everyone has a responsibility to the publisher (incorrect).

[devin]

Oh dear, I didn't pay enough attention to note who was doing the tweeting. I'm not very connected up on social media.

It is odd. I still don't find it that unseemly though. Not knowing the ins and outs of the backstory, that is.

[arecomicsevengood]

"What if the Comets Comets blog was a book publisher"