devin
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by devin on Mar 3, 2023 15:33:47 GMT
Sean Knickerbocker, the guy who puts together the Rust Belt Review anthology, recently said the following in an interview. I thought it was pretty interesting. *** "Comics are in this weird place right now. The community is becoming professionalized. As this continues to happen, it will become more difficult for working class people to participate. I think one of the beauties of comics is that anybody can make them, but as the medium becomes more wrapped into academia and traditional New York publishing, it’s becoming less and less accessible for anybody other than the children of the rich.
In the world of poetry, prose, and the fine-arts; there are benefits to working within academia and larger publishers, but I don’t see any of those benefits being given to cartoonists. Most arts grants programs don’t take cartooning seriously, and most art schools that have comics programs don’t pay their teachers very well. We’re getting all of the gatekeeping and none of the benefits. I think cartoonists should be very aware of that.
So long as we keep the DIY spirit alive in comics, I think we can continue to be an accessible community for many people. The moment we forget how to make books on our own is the moment we give up all our power to the giant publishing machines. My hope is that Rust Belt Review can be a model for larger DIY projects and I hope it can serve as an inspiration for up and coming creators."***I mean, I'm not qualified to comment on the truth of the above, and I love some of the work put out by publishers linked to academia, but, like I said, I thought it was interesting, and worth sharing. Any thoughts?
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Post by arecomicsevengood on Mar 3, 2023 19:20:56 GMT
I mostly agree, except I'd add that I recently went to a poetry reading of poets that all worked as adjunct faculty at schools. And it was really depressing, partly because they were all complaining about their low wages, but also because... the quality of their work felt so mid to me, and many of the cartoonists I know who teach are amazing cartoonists. (People at SAIC or Parsons/The New School.)
In poetry or writing academia, there is a "publish-or-perish" mentality where you have to get your C.V. padded out with publication credits in order to be employable. And this is why there are journals, I guess largely connected to schools, that I don't think anyone reads but people submit to nonetheless, because the publication credit itself carries weight within that insular world. That doesn't exist in comics, there are way less anthologies. But poets will even run a chapbook press or whatever as a way of padding their C.V. It's all incredibly insular and self-congratulatory, and frankly disgusting from my perspective as an outsider.
But you need people to teach writing at basically every college, so it's competitive, and wages are low. I am only aware of comics courses being taught at art schools, although I guess it's likely that at community colleges there are probably comics courses being taught by some non-cartoonist in the English department or whatever.
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luke
New Member
Posts: 46
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Post by luke on Mar 3, 2023 20:02:31 GMT
A related trend from the prose writing world is a huge developing industry of academic-adjacent independent classes, workshops, mentoring, and consulting "services," mostly offered by MFA grads who washed out of academia or need to pad their meager adjunct earnings. I have sympathy for that situation, but it all seems so obviously predatory and not that useful. Yet you'd be surprised by how well known and successful-seeming (in the low stakes world of publishing, at least) some of the people doing this work are.
I mention it because I've lately seen some of this "professionalization" leak out into the comics/zine realm. For instance, someone generously offering "zine consultation" services at a rate of $60 per half hour. What is someone supposed to get out of this? They get taught how to use a long-reach stapler over Zoom?
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Post by bakertoons on Mar 3, 2023 20:19:52 GMT
I mention it because I've lately seen some of this "professionalization" leak out into the comics/zine realm. For instance, someone generously offering "zine consultation" services at a rate of $60 per half hour. What is someone supposed to get out of this? They get taught how to use a long-reach stapler over Zoom? Oh man. I get that publishing tools and software are more accessible now than before (and I'm all for using it to make your zines), but am I out of line for feeling like they're trying to look legitimate by emulating mainstream publications?
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devin
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by devin on Mar 4, 2023 14:21:42 GMT
In poetry or writing academia, there is a "publish-or-perish" mentality where you have to get your C.V. padded out with publication credits in order to be employable. And this is why there are journals, I guess largely connected to schools, that I don't think anyone reads but people submit to nonetheless, because the publication credit itself carries weight within that insular world. That doesn't exist in comics, there are way less anthologies. But poets will even run a chapbook press or whatever as a way of padding their C.V. It's all incredibly insular and self-congratulatory, and frankly disgusting from my perspective as an outsider. People have been complaining about this since at least the 1950s. [EDIT: I've just remembered an essay dating back to the 30s.] To paraphrase Wendell Berry, many poets have taken to doing not much more than talking to themselves and resenting a lack of eavesdroppers. I mean, getting over the underground's hostility to the art world was a huge step forward for comics, no question, but a masters program in making alternative comics? It all strikes me as straying a little too far from the origins of what is essentially, at least in my view, a counter cultural phenomenon. Where's the wildness, y'know? In the worst case, if Knickerbocker's (he's a CCS graduate, btw) scenario plays out, it's not inconceivable that much of alternative comics could end up in a similar situation to poetry, increasingly losing contact with an actual reading public. But, like I said, I'm not really qualified to comment. As an aside, all of the above is, I think, also what's behind Simon Hanselmann's intermittent (and quite amusing, if cheap) trolling of Solrad. A related trend from the prose writing world is a huge developing industry of academic-adjacent independent classes, workshops, mentoring, and consulting "services," mostly offered by MFA grads who washed out of academia or need to pad their meager adjunct earnings. I have sympathy for that situation, but it all seems so obviously predatory and not that useful. Yet you'd be surprised by how well known and successful-seeming (in the low stakes world of publishing, at least) some of the people doing this work are. I mention it because I've lately seen some of this "professionalization" leak out into the comics/zine realm. For instance, someone generously offering "zine consultation" services at a rate of $60 per half hour. What is someone supposed to get out of this? They get taught how to use a long-reach stapler over Zoom? That's pretty funny. The only way a zine consultant could possibly even theoretically be of any use is if you're putting out a zine in order to get attention and further your career in some way. I don't judge this, but, as with alt comics and academia, it seems pretty unfaithful to the spirit of the culture. I mention it because I've lately seen some of this "professionalization" leak out into the comics/zine realm. For instance, someone generously offering "zine consultation" services at a rate of $60 per half hour. What is someone supposed to get out of this? They get taught how to use a long-reach stapler over Zoom? Oh man. I get that publishing tools and software are more accessible now than before (and I'm all for using it to make your zines), but am I out of line for feeling like they're trying to look legitimate by emulating mainstream publications?
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Post by jporcellino on Mar 6, 2023 13:38:52 GMT
From a longterm perspective, all of this seems to come and go in waves. I'm excited to see the fresh wave of truly underground comix arriving-- I remember the eventual backlash to the $75 oversized hardcover comic coming in the form of obscure riso-printed pamphlets in tiny print runs with no hype, and how refreshing it was. It all has its place. There's more great comics now than ever, but also more tripe than ever.
As I put it to friends etc, for years in "Alt-comics" we felt like we were on an island surrounded by a sea of intentional mediocrity. There was a brief moment (Jimmy Corrigan, Persepolis etc) where it felt like we might make it to the mainland-- but it didn't take long for the big publishers to run the numbers, invest heavily in the most mediocre comics out there, and leave the rest in the dustbin. Now we're all back on the same island. In fact, we never left. Cue musical stinger from LOST.
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